Charles is one of my friends from Theme Music. I became a fan of his singing and songwriting before we met and before I had a clue of his involvement in public affairs. I have been fortunate enough to get to record with him on a bunch of occasions and just to be in his charming company. Somehow despite our many conversations, I only found out about some of his work through this interview. Put on the coffee, Chuck, we’ve got more to chat about next time I’m in Florida.
Where did you grow up? How would you describe your childhood?
I grew up in St. Petersburg, Florida. Childhood was pretty normal for the 50s and early 60s… starting around age 12 or so I could ride my bike to the beach. I was an avid reader of the local newspaper (St. Petersburg Times) and became interested in politics in 1960, when Kennedy beat Nixon for president (my parents voted for Kennedy).
What was your high school experience like?
I learned one important lesson: mathematics and marijuana are not a great combination!
What are your memories of your social studies classes?
I remember some good social studies teachers in middle school and high school. Although in high school we had to take a class called “Americanism vs. Communism.” I wrote an editorial for the school paper saying the class was bullshit. The teacher didn’t like that.
That’s awesome. Why did you go to the University of South Florida for college? What did you think you would end up doing with your English major? Was journalism ever considered as a major?
I honestly didn’t think that much about college until a few months before I graduated high school. In those days if you had decent grades you could go to any state school and I picked USF because it didn’t have a fraternity/sports culture. I had an English teacher in high school who told me I could make a living by writing somehow, if I wanted to do that. Mainly I loved to read, so I never really considered any other major.
What was your first job or jobs out of college?
I took one journalism course my final quarter of college, and the professor helped me get a job at a weekly newspaper about 70 miles north of Tampa. I did everything.Then I got a job in St. Pete as a sportswriter at the afternoon paper.
When/why did you move to Atlanta?
I knew that I should get out of St. Pete because it’s a big world out there. I knew a few guys from sports who had gotten jobs in Atlanta and one of them helped me get on the news desk at the Atlanta paper.
You worked for the better part of two decades as a reporter and editor at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Your news beat included legal affairs and state politics. Did you find there was much of a learning curve about state government?
Of course. There’s how it works on paper, and how it actually works, which has a lot to do with personal relationships. Just knowing the people and their history is enlightening, and sometimes that goes way back. Some of the people who were in the legislature went on to serve in Congress and even the U.S. Senate. I must say in many cases it baffled me, because I hadn’t been that impressed by them.
How did your role change when you became an editor?
I actually was an editor for a while and then I became a political reporter. I preferred reporting. I was kind of notorious for arguing with editors. In a newsroom people sometimes yell at each other, and then after deadline all is forgiven (usually).
What were a couple of stories that you worked on at the Journal-Constitution that you are most proud of?
I did a lot of reporting about gambling when the state was going through the process of starting a lottery. I still think the explosion of gambling in our country, mostly in the 90s, had a huge impact in a lot of areas. I wrote some stories about Newt Gingrich and a course he was teaching at a local college, that led to some ethics charges against him. Kind of tip of iceberg stuff about the growing role of money in politics in the early 90s.
Why did you leave journalism to become the communications manager for the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority?
I kind of lucked out, getting an opportunity to do something else. One of those legislators I had known for a while got elected governor (Roy Barnes) and he offered me a chance to work at a new agency he had created to try to promote public transportation and more urban growth, as opposed to suburban sprawl which had been the template in Atlanta until then.
At the GRTA, you obviously utilized some of your skills and knowledge from your previous career. Was this your first time writing speeches?
Yes it was. I did a lot of other stuff too (press, etc.) but found that speechwriting was most satisfying and I seemed to have a knack for it.
You didn’t stay in that job long, taking on a speechwriting position for Georgia governor Roy Barnes. Among other speeches, you collaborated with him on his acceptance speech for a Profile in Courage award. I don’t actually know anything about Gov. Barnes. What did he do to earn that prestigious honor?
He did a lot of good things. Most notably, he changed the state flag to remove the huge “rebel flag” that had been part of it. Mainly because of that, he didn’t get re-elected to a second term. He also aggressively opposed predatory lending practices by banks. He was a progressive governor, and unfortunately every governor in Georgia since him has been the opposite of that.
You then moved on to writing for senators Harry Reid and Frank Lautenberg. Now these guys I knew about. Could you first talk about the process? How would you receive an assignment?
There were two kinds of speeches — floor speeches and external events. The events were mostly in the home states, and I would just keep on top of those and talk to other aides about what the senator should say. Once I had some ideas I would usually go into a meeting with the senator and get feedback (or veto) on the ideas that the staff and I had come up with.
For floor speeches, sometimes there would be a big vote coming up and we would know the Senator would want to say something, or it could be as little as an hour’s notice if a debate broke out.
How long would you get to work on them? How much interaction did you have with the senators?
Time spent would depend on the assignment. Sometimes the Senator would say “I need something about wind energy in an hour!” Other times, i and maybe another staffer would talk to him a couple of times.
Since I am a social studies teacher, I have to ask you to compare and contrast these Democratic icons.
Senator Reid is one of the most interesting people I have met in my life. He was an astute reader of what other people were thinking or feeling. He has a lot of natural empathy for people who are poor and oppressed. He got his own start in politics running on a ticket with his former high school social studies teacher, an ex-Marine who decided to run for governor. They won.
Senator Lautenberg also grew up poor, in Paterson. After he served in the Army in WWII, he and a couple of guys from his neighborhood started a company called ADP, which is huge now. Only after he had retired did he enter politics. He had no fear of the tobacco companies, the NRA, or any other interest group. In fact, he rather enjoyed setting them off!
When you worked for Senator Reid, you spend some of your time working with junior press staff and interns to develop their writing skills. Did you enjoy the role of teacher? Did you think you were good at it?
Yes, we had some young people in the press office, and interns. I do think I helped them become more conscious about what they were trying to achieve when they wrote a piece.
For Senator Lautenberg, you helped shape his media messaging in the great state of New Jersey. Could you talk about the challenges of dealing with the Jersey media markets?
It is a challenge, because you are in two huge markets that aren’t centered on NJ. We were super aggressive about pitching stories and ideas to both the New York and Philly papers. It was sometimes easy because the Senator was just one of the most outspoken members. Frank Lautenberg was fearless, and reporters tend to like that because it often makes for a good story.
Your last position before retiring was as a senior speechwriter for the National Education Association for well over a decade. What appealed to you about working for the NEA?
I knew that public education is one of the greatest institutions in our country, and that it was coming under attack. Every day that I worked at NEA, that was my frame of reference.
How was the process similar or different to writing speeches for the governor or the senators you worked for?
Similar in some ways. Really any speechwriter will tell you, access to the client is important. NEA in some ways was more structured.
Did you ever have to write speeches that expressed opinions that you were not wholeheartedly behind? If so, was that a challenge or something you were able to push through without much effort?
Yes, there have been issues like that. First I always reminded myself, nobody voted for me, I am working for the person who won the election. I never had a problem doing the work, because I always believed in the larger mission of the office. If you don’t, it’s time to get a new job.
Super broad question, but you can take it where you want: what did you learn about education in the United States while working at the NEA?
I knew that there is an existential threat to public education in our country today. My work at NEA helped me see all the ways in which this is true, especially the attacks through tactics such as for-profit charter schools, or vouchers.
The U.S. spends trillions of dollars on education every year. Schemes like charter schools and vouchers are mainly a way to funnel some of that money into some people’s pockets. But the war on public education isn’t just about money.
At NEA I used to write about how education has been important in our country because it’s part of the way we create informed, active citizens. You look at a time like World War II, when you had people from different backgrounds serving together, or working on an assembly line — the one experience almost every American shared and could relate to was our public schools.
The testing-craze of the NCLB era changed the experience of students. They started getting tested all the time, more and more, but it was usually on math and reading, not history. So schools began paying short-shrift to civics or social studies, while they doubled down on subjects that would affect the almighty test scores.
I used to think that was an unintended consequence of the privatization movement, but now I think it’s more than that. The erosion of civic-minded thinking is actually something that the privatizers want to achieve. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature. If you create a population that doesn’t know any history, and never studied the importance of history, it’s a lot easier to deceive people and play to their worst impulses.
I agree with everything you just said. I think it largely started with school vouchers, which were wonderful opportunities for upper middle class people to take their kids out of public schools, but not large enough for poor people to do so. Then came the focus on charter schools and taking over “failing” public schools. The standardized testing racket also serves as a cash grab, but I think you’re right about the unrelenting attack on public education being about even more than money. I guess that suggests the final topic — in a world where people are no longer reading newspapers and instead getting their news from questionable sources, what hope do you have that we’ll right this ship, that people will figure out the massive scam before it’s too late?
Actually I wouldn’t say I have a whole lot of hope. We’ll see what happens. I think there is a chance we’ll snap out of it, but it’s also possible that most people won’t until it’s too late. Since 2016, I have been loathe to make a prediction about anything.
If we do manage to save public education — one of the greatest institutions and ideas in history — it will be largely because of the unions that give teachers and support professionals a voice. And also because most parents actually love their kids’ school and teachers.
Thanks for asking!
Fenster on Education 